inDECATUR

First facilitated meeting for 315 W. Ponce development

A professionally facilitated meeting on the 315 W. Ponce development was held at the Decatur City Hall Wednesday night. This blogger elected not to attend to leave enough space for those who have "dogs in the fight," as they say.

Thanks to Joe WInter, who was one of the roughly 55 attendees, for e-mailing this report:

This was an interesting meeting.

We began with a few presentations: the developer gave a brief summary of the project; a neighbor gave a summary of the history of the neighborhood's involvement and concerns; and someone from the city talked about what the next steps would be in the process.

Probably the most memorable quote of the evening came from the neighbor, who conveyed that she and the neighbors have always expected that the parking lot would some day be developed. She said that nobody is ever going to see that parking lot on that national register of historic places.

The facilitator had everyone working in small groups. I was a scribe for one of the groups. We worked first on two questions: What are your biggest concerns about this development? What are your greatest aspirations for this development?

For my group, it was difficult to get past the concerns. For other groups, I could tell it was clearly easier for people to discuss both of these questions and to address them very seriously.

After we were done listing out our concerns and aspirations, we were then asked a new set of questions. We were asked to pick one concern, and one aspiration. For each of those, what would we do if we were the developer to allay the concerns or meet the aspirations?

It was in that second portion of the meeting that everyone really worked hard to put their heads together, and there was a lot of good feedback from each of the groups.

___________

Decatur Metro has an open thread with a photo and summary sent in by Scott, and a poll.

UPDATE: The AJC has an article now [forwarded by Carl Black]. The meeting lasted 2 hours and 10 minutes, so Otis White didn't quite earn $21/minute. Sounds like a good business to be in, but you have to build up your reputation.

UPDATE: Linda Harris e-mailed the upcoming steps to Nick @ Decatur Metro:

“The way the left it last night was that Otis was going to transcribe all of the notes (people sat in small groups and there was a scribe for each group who wrote the comments on a big tablet that was on an easel) and send them to everyone who had signed in. He said he would be discussing the next step(s) with Peggy and get back to everyone via email.”

First facilitated meeting on 315 W. Ponce tonight

Cherie sent this in:

As you know, the developer asked for indefinite deferrals to the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Commission over the summer.  It appears that the developer is now getting ready to reapply, and that the project will come before the Planning Commission this December.

 

In the mean time, at the developer’s request, the City Commission voted a few weeks ago to convene two public meetings that are IN ADDITION to the normal consideration process for a project of this type.  These are not “traditional” City meetings as there is no board or commission overseeing the meetings.  The City’s only role will be in providing a facilitator, a space, and public notice.

 

The first of these meetings is scheduled for OCTOBER 15^th in the City Commission Room in City Hall, 6:30p.

 

Though details are still developing, we believe the purpose of these meetings is to allow additional public input and to find areas of agreement between the developer and the community.

 

It is critically important that we as Decatur citizens have massive attendance again at the meeting so that we may share our concerns and press the developers to make substantive, meaningful alterations to the plans that will result in a project that is good for him, for the community and for the City.

 

We are not aware that there have been substantive changes to the previous plans and applications--which means that our longstanding concerns about the density, traffic and parking remain.

 

Frequent updates, as well as copies of plans and applications can be found at—

 

http://decatur.livablegrowth.org

AJC notes Decatur Rec Center planning

Decatur has begun what could be a several-year process to spruce up its aging recreation center.

 

Public meetings will be held over the next six months to get residents’ input on ideas for the 50-year-old center on Sycamore Street. The facility had served as the home court for Decatur High’s basketball team. But with the school building a new gym, the city can renovate the center and is looking for new uses, especially for the 1,000-seat gym.

“We are trying to find new ways to use the building that support active living in our community,” Deputy City Manager Hugh Saxon said.

The city will pay $44,000 to LP3 Architects to hold the meetings and develop a master plan and schematics for the center. That project will include a cost estimate, expected to be at least several million dollars.

Work on any improvements could begin in 2010, but most likely it will start in 2011.

April Hunt | AJC

This is slightly old news, but we appreciate all AJC articles on Decatur.

Trinity Triangle given life cycle density increase

On 10/09/2008, the Decatur Planning Commission approved a downtown multiple-dwelling and a density increase for life cycle dwellings for the property at 233-253 East Trinity Place and 233 East Howard Avenue [AKA the "Trinity Triangle" where the "Relapse Inn" once was]. A summary of conditions is in the continuation.

In a comment to a Decatur Metro post, Lyn Menne reports:

The developer anticipates 9 to 10 months for construction documents and permitting and approximately 1 year for construction so we’re looking at a construction start late next year and completion the end of 2010. We’ll try to get the current drawings posted to the web asap and follow up with any updates on the Dairy Queen design as they progress. The good news is that the Dairy Queen will be able to stay open throughout construction under this new plan.

What isn't said, specifically, is how many units will be allowed.

AJC reports on Decatur development in Black & White

City of Decatur officials say the meeting on a redevelopment proposal on the city’s main drag will be “facilitated” by Otis White, president of Civic Strategies Inc.

Carl Black, who lives near the site, said he thinks White’s wade into the fray might produce more meaningful dialogue in an area where a downtown building boom directly abuts single-family neighborhoods.

DWL | AJC | 10/8/2008

This is none other than "the Carl" who feeds so many tips into the local Decatur blogs.

I got the Black & White idea from reading Decatur Metro, which typically posts first on stories which break during the day. The inDECATUR and Decatur Metro are to blogs what the Atlanta Constitution and the Atlanta Journal were to papers back before they merged.

At $21/minute, Mr. White is not cheap. Hopefully, he proves worth it.

UPDATE: Carl is always digging. He's found Civic Strategies has an office in the 315 W. Ponce building.

Dairy Queen you know and love will stay

From the September Decatur Focus:

The Trinity Triangle project is moving forward with some improvements to the site plan. This project, located on the property around the Dairy Queen, was caught up in a change of ownership but is now moving forward.

The new scheme calls for renovating the Dairy Queen but leaving it in place. This plan is good news because it means the Dairy Queen will not have to close during construction. It also drops plans for the drive-thru window that was a requirement of corporate Dairy Queen if a new building was constructed.

The revised site plan more closely matches recommendations from the city’s Community Transportation Plan and provides for a more efficient connection for
the PATH trail between Howard Avenue and Trinity Place.

The plan also shows a much more efficient location for the parking deck that is interior to the project. The project still includes residential units with street-level retail along Trinity Place. Residential units
on the Howard Avenue side will still include ground floor units that open directly to the street.

The developer anticipates a nine-month design phase with construction likely to begin late in 2009. The project would be completed in 2010.

h/t: Decatur Metro

Decatur Court (315 Ponce) developers willing to reconsider

From Commissioner Fred Boykin (via Cherie):

"The Decatur Court developers have asked for "an indefinite deferral" of their project and are asking the Development Authority and Planning Commission "to convene a series of open meetings at which the project can be discussed and alternatives for addressing concerns can be considered."

Duane Truex, a key organizer of the local residents, responds to Fred in the continuation.

Cemetery Master Plan workshop 6:30PM Monday, 8/25

There are two upcoming meetings related to the proposed Cemetery Master Plan. Both will be in the City Commission Meeting Room at Decatur City Hall, 509 North McDonough St., Decatur, Georgia.

• Monday, August 25, 2008, 6:30 p.m. to 8 p.m. This a workshop to discuss options for restoration of the 10-acre woodland area of the Cemetery property behind Glendale Avenue. Topics include removal of kudzu and other invasive plants, new plantings, stream bank protection and restoration, storm drainage, options for protecting and improving wildlife habitat.
            
• Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 6 p.m. to 7:30 pm. Work session before the regular City Commission meeting. This will be a presentation of the proposed master plan to the City Commission.

See more details at City of Decatur site.

Lifecycle density bonus

UPDATE: Nick @ Decatur Metro found an explanation "lifecycle density bonus" from some earlier City Commission meeting minutes.

I was going to dig up the technical definition when I had the time, but Nick saved me the trouble.

Another take on 315 W. Ponce and Decatur development in general

B King @ Terminal Station [which is linked in CL's Atlanta Bloggers Today post] does a take on the 315 W. Ponce development, and even quotes some comments by this blogger.

One [commenter] noted that, if this developer is given a variance for shared parking, even with lots of land to work with, and no hardship since it can solve its own problem by reducing the number of units; future developers will see how the game is played and also build cases for their "need" for shared parking and a variance. Eventually, we'll have a city with more cars than parking spaces.

He/she (I'm going to assume she, since men typically are not afraid to spell out their first name, but I could be wrong) responds:

"You want a city with more cars than parking spaces, because it means you have created a dense, pedestrian friendly environment. In the short run, it may be difficult to find parking. But people will adapt - they will buy scooters, start biking, or leave their cars in the garage and take MARTA to work. This is how you get people walking and taking alternative transportation. It is how you get changes in long run behavior. And you can only make these alternatives possible by creating a pedestrian friendly environment to support them - which is what this development does."

The problem with this argument, as many of us see it, is that only a small percentage of those living in Decatur want to, or can, limit their activities to things in walking/biking/scootering range, or are willing to spend half their day waiting on MARTA trains and buses. ZIP cars? Give me a break! Have you seen the hourly rates on those things? They might be useful for a retired person who rarely leaves Decatur, but it would be cheaper to buy a clunker and insurance if you use a car much at all on a regular basis. Even B. King acknowledges people will be leaving their cars in the garage (see highlighted words above), which throws a big lug wrench into the concept of shared parking between residents and businesses. The more "green" people with cars behave, the less space is available for those who work in the highrise during the day.

A direct question for B. King: Do you have one or more cars in Virginia Highlands? If you lived in Decatur, would you not have a car? Be honest, now.

Ever notice that those who promote a carless lifestyle almost always have cars?

Unless you work for a local merchant, a law firm, or the city or county; you probably work elsewhere in Atlanta even if you live in Decatur. You are expected to be at work on time. You may have to travel to the locations of clients in the greater Atlanta area.

Only a few cities in America have the infrastructure to support "carless" living for anybody but the retired, and Atlanta is definitely not one of them. We don't have a grid of subways under most streets like NYC. Almost everyone between 18 and 65 living in Decatur is going to have at least one car for the foreseeable future, even if they walk, bike, scooter, and MARTA whenever those modes are practical. [This blogger personally knows only one adult in this age range living in Decatur who doesn't have a car, and that's only  because he can't save up enough money to buy insurance on a car his dad would give him.]  Each of those cars will be in a parking space for at least 8 hours every day.  In fact, the more a person walks, bikes, scooters, and MARTAs around, the longer his/her car will need a parking space home.

The last figures I've seen (which are probably out of date and thus low) say 25K people are in Decatur during the day and 18K at night. Even adjusting for couples and families with kids, that equates to lots of cars which need parking spaces for X hours a day. If I could find hard numbers for cars registered to Decatur addresses and average car counts downtown during the day, I'd post them. Please link to such data if you know where it is.

When we approach the point where there are more cars than parking spaces, chaos will set in. People will be parking in handicapped spaces, in front of residents' houses, and even on grass strips when it comes to that. Ticketing, towing and booting will be big business. Violators will be greatly inconvenienced and pay big. Visitors will not know where to park to do business with our local merchants. Complaints will be high. Decatur will get a black eye. Some other city/town will emerge to take our place as the Berkeley/Mayberry town ITP, or just outside it.

Even the members of the Decatur Zoning Board of Appeals acknowledged that we can't let parking management get completely out of control before we find a practical way for people to have cars, legs, bikes, and scooters in Decatur.

Which brings us back to  the first paragraph by this blogger which Terminal Station quoted:

As a number of people noted, this is a landmark decision in the development of Decatur. If the wrong decision is made, we may kill the goose that laid the golden egg, ruining the delicate Berkeley/Mayberry balance of our charming little town in the city.

Most Decatur residents don't want to have a Mayberry, nor a Berkeley. They want something between the two. They  want a town where you can smile and say hello to people who pass you on the sidewalk, without wondering if they are about to pull a gun and rob you. They want a city where you can experience a multi-cultural variety of shops, restaurants, and theatre. They want to enjoy what's in Decatur and what's within 12 miles in metro Atlanta. They can avoid driving in Decatur during rush hours, knowing traffic will not be a problem for the other 20 hours a day. They don't want Decatur to turn into the next Buckhead, with bumper-to-bumper traffic at night and frequent reports of shootings.

Nobody, even the experts who disagree, have a simple formula for doing that. We all have to work together and move carefully as Decatur continues to grow in density.

It's good that we're now having a dialog with all sides being heard. You, the citizen of Decatur, have to weigh all sides, come to your own conclusions, and make sure your opinion is heard.

Gotta give B. King credit for being straightforward about one thing:

"I would be pissed if I lived on the street with the side of the parking deck, even if it is supposed to be screened by trees and such. I'd love to see a quality facade required."

At the bottom on this image is an elevation which shows what some residents on Fairview will be facing when in their back yards:

Again, this blogger asks: Why shouldn't the parking deck be in the center of the property, so the apartment dwellers see it from their back decks, rather than the existing residents? At one meeting this blogger attended months ago, the developer said the parking deck would not be seen from outside the development. When did this change? The Decatur Planning Commission and City Commissioners should not allow a developer to depreciate the property and quality of life of existing home owners to enhance the quality of life of RENTERS.

UPDATE: B. (Ben, it turns out) has responded. HE admits he does have a car, and acknowledges he would have one even if he live in Decatur, which supports my point. If everyone who lives in a 4.2 square mile area feels he/she/they must have at least one car, and the highest density is in the downtown area (which is less than a half squre mile), where restaurant/pub goers and shoppers need to park, our parking problem will grow as we add downtown residents at 218 per clip (the units the 315 Developer plans to build). It will probably never reach pandemonium, because people will live and work elsewhere long before that.

I still wonder why a guy with a short name like Ben would use the pseudonym "B. King." Maybe we're supposed to think "Be King." I don't know. I'm no psychologist. I'll ask my friend girl who is. But, that's neither here nor there to the discussion at hand, which has nothing to do with gender.